5/19/06 PAC Recreation Subgroup Meeting Notes

 

Attending:  June Helbig, Barry Donahue, Dan Wood, Howard Briggs, Dave Hurwitz, Gus Bekker, Dick Rieman, Liz Tanke, Lee Carlson, Rick Acosta

 

Saundie McPhee could not attend but prepared information and sent this info to subgroup members prior to the meeting.  The group reviewed and considered Saundie’s input during the course of the meeting. 

 

The group spent the day refining management themes and desired conditions.  The group has generally arrived at a finished product for desired conditions. 

 

The group had much discussion regarding the need to further define the management themes that had been developed to date.  The result of this discussion is that the group believes that the titles of the management themes along with the associated desired conditions adequately define each management theme. 

 

The following Agreements were also made by the group.

  • Non-motorized travel in the backcountry is a valid use and experience on the national forest.
  • Motorized travel in the backcountry is a valid used and experience on the national forest.
  • The title of Management Theme #1”Back Country Non-Motorized” is now changed to “Back Country Non-Motorized Travel”.
  • The title of Management Theme #2 “Back Country Motorized” is now changed to “Back Country Motorized Travel”.
  • Management Theme #3 Back Country Roaded and Management Theme #4 Front Country are now combined into one management theme which is now called Management Theme #3 Roaded Country.  This now results in a total of five management themes (instead of six) developed by the recreation subgroup. 
  • The following clarification is also agreed to by the group:  Management Themes #1 through #4 apply when there is not enough snow on the ground to allow winter recreation.   When there’s enough snow on the ground to allow winter recreation, Management Theme #5 Winter Recreation Forest Wide applies. 

 

The subgroup would like to review its work on Management Theme #5 (formerly #6) “Winter Recreation Forest-Wide since discussion on this theme occurred at the end of the day and the effort may have been “rushed”.   There are also bin items from the previous April sub group meeting related to this management theme to discuss as well.

 

 

The format of these meeting notes related to desired conditions is generally arranged in the following way. 

 

·        The original attempt by the Recreation Subgroup to develop desired conditions is presented first for each desired condition in black. 

·        Wording in italicized green are the comments made by PAC members at the 5-3-2006 PAC meeting, and are presented secondly for each desired condition.   Members placed green dots next to statements they felt needed additional discussion.

·        Any changes and the final desired condition statement proposed by the Recreation Subgroup are then presented lastly for each desired condition in red.

 

There are also situations in which the recreation subgroup did/did not make changes to desired conditions.  The sub group actively considered all comments made by the entire PAC group on 5/3. 

 

 

General, Forest-Wide Desired Conditions

1.           Provide a well-balanced array of recreation opportunities across the breadth of the recreation opportunity spectrum in accordance with resource capability, public demands, and expectations for outdoor recreation. (From:  1990 Forest Plan Decision, Page 7 Summary, Wenatchee N.F.)

2.           Recreationists have mutual respect due to ongoing education, partnerships, appropriate signing, and law enforcement.  (Two green dots:  Add respect for the land [maybe combine #2 and #5], natural resources, littering, etc.  You need some way to explain this to the users.  You could use signing to explain why things are happening they way they are [relate natural sciences to the recreation going on]). Knowledgeable users are aware of the varying recreation opportunities and capacities available.  Conflicts between recreationists are minimized as a result of ongoing education, partnerships, appropriate signing, and law enforcement.                                  

3.           Local managers take appropriate measures to protect resources and to resolve/mitigate user conflicts during change of seasons (fall to winter; winter to spring).  The following statement is added here:  Recreation capacities are identified and observed across the Forest. 

4.           Opportunities for Native Americans to practice traditional/cultural uses are not limited.  (One green dot:  What does “are not limited” mean? I’d change that to say “rights of Native Americans are not limited.”  An acknowledgement of rights needs to be added; the wording needs to be improved.  Native Americans’ treaty rights are not obstructed.  Traditional and cultural activities do not conflict with recreational opportunities throughout the National Forest. 

5.           To the extent possible, recreation use is compatible with all natural resources of the national forest. (One green dot:  Combine with #2).  Statement deleted because it’s now handled above. 

6.           Facilities and trails will be designed to minimize impacts to natural resources.  Facilities, roads, and trails are designed to minimize impacts to natural resources.   

7.           National recreation activities stimulate local rural economies and local communities recognize the importance of recreation opportunities on the national forest.   (Two green dots:  Emphasize this, this is an important component.  It should say National Forest recreation. Importance of economic effects may need to be stated to reflect this.  Emphasize “economic” effects.)  National forest recreation opportunities contribute to local rural economies and local communities support recreation opportunities and capacities on the national forest. 

8.           Affordable recreation opportunities are available to everyone.  (Two green dots:  The committee wants affordable access to what the forest offers [trails, camping, etc.].  There is concern that user fees are making it difficult for lower income individuals to be able to recreate in the national forests; the forests should not be available to just those who can afford to recreate there.  Everyone should be able to afford to recreate in the National Forests.)  A range of recreation opportunities across the national forest is available to everyone.  This includes opportunities ranging from no-fee activities to fee-based developed sites in appropriate locations.    

9.           Creative sources of funding are available for recreation maintenance and construction of recreation facilities.  Reliable sources of funding are available for maintenance of current recreation opportunities and construction of new resource appropriate recreation facilities, including roads and trails.  The Forest Service actively works with user groups and agencies to seek additional sources of funding.  (Keep this one separate from #15 below.) 

10.      Nature trail opportunities are available close to roads.

11.      Hiking trail (non-motorized) opportunities are available at all elevation zones (due to snow depth/barriers in spring, etc.)  Non-motorized trail opportunities are available at all elevation zones (due to snow depth/barriers in spring, etc.)

12.      Opportunities to view healthy wildlife ecosystems and water systems (lakes, streams) are available to recreationists.  (One green dot:  Is specific viewing of wildlife an objective of all motorized and non-motorized users?  Wildlife is addressed in #1.  We all like to see wildlife; this is not limited to motorized or non-motorized user groups. Does wildlife want to see you?  This statement does not imply that roads be built for wildlife viewing purposes, etc.  There need to be areas that are relatively pristine.  Maybe retool the wording in this theme).  Opportunities exist throughout the national forest to view a diverse variety of visually appealing scenery, including healthy plants, water systems, wildlife, forest management activities, and transitional landscapes. 

13.      Roads and trails are maintained.  (One green dot: This needs to be emphasized…the problem is the lack of funding to maintain trails, resulting in fewer maintained trails and forcing recreationists to over use just a few maintained trails.)   Roads, trails, and trail heads are maintained.  (This is plain English and can’t be said any clearer or more emphasized.)

14.      Additional trails are constructed in order to reduce impacts, encourage use in different parts of the forest, access scenic viewpoints/features, and accommodate increased need and demand.  (One green dot:  Maintenance issues and developing an idea to address those issues.  The resource impact issue is “Does wildlife want to see you?”  Develop an idea about maintenance, balance of existing with new; also address the wildlife issue.  This was addressed in themes #5 and #6.  The red flag I see is the use of the word “additional,” it could be re-worded maybe say “adequate.”)  New trails, roads, and trail heads are constructed, and sections of existing trails are relocated or closed in order to reduce impacts, encourage use in different parts of the forest, access scenic view points/features, and accommodate increased need and demand.

15.      The Forest Service has strong partnerships with ski clubs, snowmobile clubs, and individuals.  (Three green dots:  This is too narrow as stated.   It could be worded to state that the Forest Service has strong partnerships with recreation groups and Tribes.  This is in relation to winter recreation partnerships, the need to develop better winter recreation partnerships.  We highlighted the winter recreation partnerships but didn’t exclude other uses/partnerships.  Add partnerships with other landowners.)  The Forest Service has strong partnerships with user groups, management agencies, private landowners, and tribes. 

16.      Need for dispersed camping available across the forest, not just motorized and non-motorized.  See themes #2 and #11.  Additional opportunities for dispersed camp sites (accessible via vehicle) and developed campgrounds in non-sensitive areas are provided to offset those closed in sensitive areas, and to provide for additional capacity and demand.    

17.      Promotes consistency between other landowners (Federal, State, private, etc.).  This ties in with #15.  Promotes consistency within the Forest Service and other government land management agencies.

18.      Additional opportunities for dispersed camp sites (accessible via vehicle) and developed camp grounds in non-sensitive areas are provided to offset those closed in sensitive areas and to provide for additional capacity and demand. 

19.      Additional opportunities for dispersed camp sites (accessible via vehicle) and developed camp grounds in non-sensitive areas are provided to offset those closed in sensitive areas and to provide for additional capacity and demand.

 


1.  Management Theme:  Back Country Non-Motorized Travel   

(One green dot under the Management Theme:  I’m not sure where backcountry and front country start and end.  Define this better/have a common understanding of what this is).

1.          Want to see Wildlife.  (Three green dots:  This statement needs to include wildlife views/vistas.)  Opportunities are available to view wildlife and scenic views/vistas.   

2.          No Developed Campsites.  (Three green dots:  Opportunities to have more dispersed campsites, not developed campgrounds.  Better combine or define #2, #6 and #9; have some kind of a working idea about the level of dispersal of sites and development.  There should be developed campsites, but we need a better common understanding of what a developed campsite is.  There is room for compromise depending upon the definition of “developed campsites.”  Define/clarify “developed campsites,” what do these look like?)  Facilities in this management theme follow Development Scale 1 and Scale 2 protocols (see glossary).  This includes livestock camps with available grazing.  A few Development Scale 2 and Scale 2 protocol facilities exist across this management theme that will accommodate larger groups. 

3.          See fewer people sites, and sounds.  (Three green dots:  If people want to get away they need to go to Wilderness which is already 40% of the Okanogan and Wenatchee National Forests.  Number 3 was completely separate from #4; the discussion was a desired condition.  You reach a limiting capacity.  Apply creativity and imagination to this problem; look for other ways to achieve the desired condition.  Distribution of people—folks are more tolerant of seeing people on the trail than of seeing a lot of people in their camping area.  A sense of peace and quiet doesn’t mean not seeing people.  There is lack of consensus on this theme.  The recreation sub-group needs to look at #3 and #4 again.  This may be an area of disagreement.  Visitors are able to experience a sense of peace and quiet.  People tend to be well dispersed, contributing to a feeling of “aloneness”.   

4.          Limit number of people and outfitters. (Four green dots:  See #3.)  Drop this statement. 

5.        See the forest in its natural state.  (Two green dots:  This depends upon the definition of “natural”.  This needs to be described better.  Start at the point of understanding that this is a backcountry experience or a more “natural” experience.)  Within this management theme, there is a feeling that the forest is not being actively managed.  Disturbed areas appear to be in a state of transition. 

6.          Primitive facilities that accommodate larger groups are present.  (One green dot:  This implies that there is a large recreation structure in place.  We were referring to “primitive” keeping in mind group size limitations in Wilderness.  We weren’t talking about buildings, maybe an outhouse at most.  Primitive needs to be better defined.)  Delete this statement since it’s now handled by #2 above. 

7.          Provide opportunities that minimize conflict between users (4 wheel, 2 wheel, horse, quads, hikers).  (One green dot:  This point, “to provide opportunities that minimize conflict between users” needs to be a forest-wide theme.  The sub-group needs to figure out where they want items #6 through #10 to be located.)  Done, now a forest wide desired condition.      

8.           Trails are managed to accommodate a variety of uses in accordance with resource capability.  Now a forest wide desired condition. 

 

9.           Established/dispersed stock camps and other non-motorized type camps are available.  (One green dot:  No comments.)  Now addressed in #2 above. 

10.      Livestock recreation opportunities with grazing are available.  (One green dot:  No comments).  Now addressed in #2 above.  


2.  Management Theme:  Back Country Motorized Travel

 

1.           Want good views.  Opportunities are available to view wildlife and scenic views/vistas. 

2.           Want to be able to see wildlife.  Delete this statement since it’s now combined with #1 above.

3.           Motorized trails need to be challenging. (One green dot:  A variety of experiences, including challenging.)  A variety of motorized trails are available across this management theme, including trails that offer challenges. 

4.           Fewer vehicles in this category (jeeps and high clearance vehicles).  (One green dot:  No comments.) This statement is now incorporated in #5 below.   

5.           Prefer loop trails.  The motorized trail system is designed to disperse users, minimize resource impacts, and maximize loop opportunities. 

6.           Don’t want to hear other forest users near by.  (One green dot:  No comments.)  Opportunities exist to experience a sense of “aloneness”. 

7.           Access to trails ensured, especially in winter.  (Two green dots:  No comments.)  Delete this statement because it’s addressed in Management Theme #5, Winter Recreation Forest Wide.

8.           Need for scenic views. Delete this statement since it is now covered in statement #1 above.   

9.           Challenges.  (One green dot:  No comments.)  Delete this statement since it’s now covered in statement #3 above.

 

Let the sub-group deal with items 10 & 11.

 

10.      Trails and camp sites are linked via Forest Service roads and are open to ATV and motorcycle users.  (Two green dots:  No comments.)  Delete this statement here and deal with it in Management Theme #3 Roaded Country. 

11.      Additional opportunities for dispersed camp sites (accessible via vehicle) and developed camp grounds in non-sensitive areas are provided to offset those closed in sensitive areas and to provide for additional capacity and demand.  This statement now moved to forest wide desired conditions. 

Additional desired condition for this management theme is:  Within this management theme, there is a feeling that the forest is not being actively managed.  Disturbed areas appear to be in a state of transition.

 

3.       Management Theme:  Roaded Country (modified theme which is a combination of Management Theme #3 Back Country Roaded and Management Theme #4, Front Country)

 

  1. Roads are well maintained to prevent resource damage.

 

  1. Throughout this management theme, new developed campgrounds with Development Scale 3 to 5 protocol are present.   Available facilities range from Development Scale 3-5 protocol. 

 

  1. Sufficient opportunities for dispersed camp sites accessible via vehicle in non-sensitive areas are provided to offset opportunities lost due to closures in sensitive areas and to provide for additional capacity and demand within the bounds of recreation capacity. 

 

  1. Sufficient opportunities for developed campgrounds accessible via vehicle in non-sensitive areas are provided to offset opportunities lost due to closures in sensitive areas and to provide for additional capacity and demand within the bounds of recreation capacity. 

 

  1. Human and some forest management activities may be apparent. 

 

  1. Personal use products are available. 

 

  1. Special use and concession facilities are appropriate in this area.

 

  1.  Livestock recreation opportunities with grazing are available. 

 

  1. Some trail and camp sites are linked via selected Forest Service roads and are open to OHVs.

 

 

 

 

PAC members did not discuss points listed on the following pages as sub-group members did not have enough time to thoroughly develop the material.
3.  Management Theme:  Back Country Roaded Delete all of this since it’s now dealt with in the “new” Management Theme #3 Roaded Country above or Management Theme #5 Winter Recreation #5 below. 

1.           Maintained roads

2.           Dispersed camping

3.           Some facilities

4.           View points

5.           Firewood gathering

6.           Outfitter facilities

7.           Separate cross country ski areas

8.           Snowmobile trails

 


4.  Management Theme:  Front Country Delete all of this since it’s now dealt with in the “new” Management Theme #3 Roaded Country above or Management Theme #5 Winter Recreation #5 below. 

 

 

1.           Maintained roads

2.           Developed campgrounds

3.           Ski areas

4.           Open for snowmobiles

 

(Common to Management Themes #1-#4)

5.           Established/dispersed stock camps and other non-motorized type camps are available. This statement is now covered in Management Theme #1Back Country Non-Motorized Travel. 

6.           Livestock recreation opportunities with grazing are available.

 

(Common to Management Themes #2-#4)

 

7.           Trails and camp sites are linked via Forest Service roads and are open to ATV and motorcycle users.

8.           Additional opportunities for dispersed camp sites (accessible via vehicle) and developed camp grounds in non-sensitive areas are provided to offset those closed in sensitive areas and to provide for additional capacity and demand. This statement is moved to Forest Wide desired conditions. 


4. Management Theme:  Community Forest

 

This management this is NOT a county park or state park.  It is located on national forest in “one’s backyard”.  In its most primitive form, it could simply be a well marked  boundary with access roads that are gated and signed.  In its well developed form, it would have a picnic area, paved parking lot, paved trail for special needs hikers, crisscrossed with hiking trails, mountain bike trails, horse trails, etc. 

 

 

All of the following desired condition statements were validated by the subgroup.  Exceptions and changes are noted. 

1.           Need to be close (within 5-10 miles) to the community areas.  One of these areas per District would be present.

2.           Accessible to families (kids, grandparents, etc.)

3.           Non-motorized year round

4.           Accessible to bikes, horses, etc.

5.           Approximately 10 square miles in size (smaller scale areas) and may or may not be roaded.

6.           No camping allowed

7.           Sense of place is quiet

8.           No camp fires

9.           Day use only/interpretive leader and outdoor education provided

10.      Active forest management allowed (thinning, prescribed burning, etc.)

11.      Access for people with special needs

12.      Primitive facilities that accommodate larger groups are present.

13.      Provide opportunities that minimize conflict between users (4 wheel, 2 wheel, horse, quads, hikers) Delete this statement. 

14.      Trails are managed to accommodate a variety of uses in accordance with resource capability.


5. Management Theme:  Winter Recreation Forest-Wide

 

Implementing this management theme would occur by serving as a kind of GIS overlay related to the presence of snow that allows winter recreation to occur. 

Sub Category withi